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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1376
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Posted - 2014.04.21 11:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
if they made it more of a player corp service then definitely.
but i think i remember reading somewhere its intended as a tool for null sec, rather than empire. if thats wrong, or if things have changed, then dnt see why they cant make it part of player corps in empire as well. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1376
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 12:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lilliana Stelles wrote:Only if players who bothered to grind those standings are somehow reimbursed.
well no, those standings would still be useful.
grinding for sec status was altered. didnt mean players that grinded their sec status were reimbursed. grinding for POS standings is on its way out, no one will be reimbursed EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1376
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 12:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:I'd like to see the requirement for jump clone installation linked to "mini epic arcs" for each corp. Players would have to complete a series of 5-10 difficult missions and would get "clone rights" with that corp as a reward.
still tedious. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1377
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 15:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Liafcipe9000 wrote:then what purpose would it serve? this is a bad idea, just another reason why not to do missions.
why do players have to do missions? is there a reason having JC's should be inherently harder/more annoying for traders, PvP'ers, Miners and Explorers?
If the jumpclone standings mechanic is moved to another mechanic that requires work, time, isk etc etc, like say building and/or buying the clone bay and installing it in something. then thats fine. Entitlement has little to do with this idea.
what is a huge tedious bore is telling all ur noobs that the moment they join they have to grind standings to 8.0 so that ur corp can use JC's, even if they are miners with no skills, u tell them to sit in station and fleet up with other mission runners. Whats an annoying circumvention of the mechanic is telling ur noobs that they have to join other ppls corps for a second to get JC's and then come back to the corp they really want to be in.
OR, we could just swap the mechanic for something with more focus on players, that still requires work and time, rather than NPC buttkissing. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1378
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 19:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
can either of u tell me why the PvE grind is a good mechanic and should stay?
i dnt give two ***** about 'its not that hard' or 'just join another corp for a day'. u tell me why its not a pants on head mechanic that wouldnt be better replaced by something driven by players.
even a POS module that takes organic matter as fuel per clone would be better. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1378
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 21:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:can either of u tell me why the PvE grind is a good mechanic and should stay?
i dnt give two ***** about 'its not that hard' or 'just join another corp for a day'. u tell me why its not a pants on head mechanic that wouldnt be better replaced by something driven by players.
even a POS module that takes organic matter as fuel per clone would be better. Because everything that is playerdriven is going to be abused and exploited. Because clone bays belong to NPC Factions in Empire and if you want to dump your lump of meat in their bays, you do what they want you to do. Because Some grind does not hurt. Because you also see other things from the game than just exploding ships. Because you also realize that it takes effort to gain something. Shall I continue? I don't give a damn about what you think; if you don't like it, join 00 sec and you get your JCs with no effort. Actually, having this 8.0 Standing Requirement is a driving force to push players out of High sec. If you take that away, more people stay in high sec and CCP continues with its chaotic plan to introduce changes to push people out of High sec and make them stay in High sec at the same time. That's just dense.
none of those reasons hold water. everything player driven is exploited? clone bays belong to players as well the 8.0 standing doesnt drive anyone anywhere, players use other corps or just grind standings some grind doesnt hurt, big whoop, it does f-all to add to the game either changing the mechanic doesnt remove effort
should i go on?
Quote: The PVE grind is a good mechanic because it makes players actually put effort into achieving a goal whether it is(was) to put up a POS, get jumpclones or get reduced market taxes. Additionally it gets them a chance to work together towards a common goal for overall corp standings. What advantage would there be in an entirely player run mechanism? At least PVE based mechanisms is something unique to HiSec, maybe not the best system ever, but better than one press instant gratification you seem to be looking for.
Btw whats the point of Rorquals if we start using POS for jumpclones...theyve already lost their compression advantage.
yeah, also no sense here.
changing the mechanic to something else does not remove effort when u dnt even know what the replacement mechanic will be. thats just silly . im not advocating a Push button->get JC. and suggesting i am is a strawman argument. This goes doubly when u are both saying 'oh its so easy to get a JC' 'i grinded in a day, cause im amazing' so clearly its the current system that is favoring instant gratification types.
work together towards a goal? like u did when u grinded for a day to get ur personal standing up. Or maybe ur referring to joining someone elses corp for less than 24 hours to get a JC. great team effort there. Or was it when players join fleet, dock up and let others run missions for them. No, attaching it to a POS or other player system encourages players working together more than a standings grind ever will.
at no point did i ask for an effortless instant gratification system. Learn2read. ur whine at the rorqual isnt a good point either. There is no good position in arguing that it may make an already broken and barely used ship even more broken and unused. i mean come on! As if the saving grace for the rorqual would be its jump clones. seriously.
Quote:If PVE grinds are such a terrible thing then we should completely remove mission income, NPC bounties and loyalty points...making isk from PVE is a grind too.
there is a scarecrow factory's worth of strawman here lol. thats just freaking hilarious. 10/10 drama queen. If the speakers in ur car break, do u drive ur car off a cliff with similar sentiments to those ive quoted?
the arguments provided actually help show that there really is no good reason to tie it to a standings grind beyond the ones originally stated by CCP, which was that its purposefully meant for null-seccers. if u want another chance at a rebuttal, why don't u answer my questions from before? Why does a miner/trader/explorer need to grind through the mechanics of another career to get something that is useful to all professions? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1378
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 21:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:What advantage would there be in an entirely player run mechanism?
-That no matter what u do as a profession, its not any easier or harder to get JC's - U dnt have to corp hop to get JC's. ur corp provides for u if they have the equipment - The service is buildable, destroyable, costs money, resources, takes time - that NPC's and PvE are not directly involved. as CCP will tell u, the less NPC involvement the better. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1378
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 22:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
1. assuming JC's are still supposed to be more available to null seccers than empire players, then fine. But that shouldnt apply anymore in the same way that warping to 15km isnt default anymore. players get around it. it serves no purpose anymore.
2. what player profession was that? having a corp for others to use for JC's? if thats considered a player profession, it would still be doable, but less necessary. no hearts will be broken. Or if someone quits because they cant do that anymore, then CCP can change it back.
3. Working on it. and ill flesh it out as soon as.
4. They are part of the game. CCP are working on making them a lesser part of the game. dnt worry, this doesnt mean the complete removal of NPC's. Just their necessity. It wont hurt ur missions.
JC's dnt drive anyone anywhere. i have never spoken to anyone who said they went to null JUST to get a jumpclone. And one guy said he grinded it in a day. The current system is clearly not working as a deterrent or goal, no incentive is given to go else where. its an annoyance that is as easily worked around as bookmarking 15km beyond a gate. The point is to increase player services and assets that work as conflict and interaction drivers and to remove the necessity of silly workarounds.
ive answered that question several times now.
edit- and the access to low and null is not as easy as ur saying. not everyone has a Rorqual or (edit2-old supers)Carrier. Not everyone is friendly with null sec blocks. i dnt see a reason why u SHOULD have to have either of these for JC's. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1378
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 10:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Chaotix Morwen wrote: Why does a miner need to fight npcs that spawn into his belt, why do indies need to get salvage from pvp and exploration? No profession can exist in a bubble, each one interacts with another. Also they do not NEED to do any form of pve, they can simply do it if they want a nice non essential bonus in the game.
A miner does not need to fight NPC's, an indy does not need to make rigs. Ur right when u say no profession lives in a bubble. Ur wrong for thinking that the bubble MUST include NPC's though.
Chaotix Morwen wrote:How is using a POS clone bay not an instant JC button, in a few months there will be no effort at all in setting up a small POS anywhere in HiSec.
Erecting and maintaining a POS requires work. The tower and the modules have to be built from scratch with PI, it must be fueled to work and it is open to attack from other players. No POS is built and erected in a day. Even when u buy the tower and mods, someone else put the work into building it and u pay for that work. Therefore its clear to anyone, that the work involved in a POS is much more than that of ur day long grind.
Chaotix Morwen wrote: We grinded standings in one day to get a JC for ONE corp, guess what singular corps dont cover all of Eve, standings grinding awards you bit by bit expanding your JC ability but if you want overall coverage its a long bit of work, hardly instant gratification. ... I often run missions with other players who would get absolutely destroyed in lvl 4s, we all share in the standings increase, and in my own corp we work together to get the corps standing up at a decent level. If that isnt teamwork then i know a lot less than i thought. How is one guy in a corp putting up a POS working together more than a mission running fleet?
Yes one corp. U only need the standings of one corp to install unlimited jump clones. And how is 1 guy running level 4's whilst 10ppl sit afk in fleet more work than several chars combining their PI to make a tower, modules and fuel to make their own JC base? see how i twisted things like u have?
Chaotix Morwen wrote: As stupid as it sounds...its all that ship has, might as well ditch the thing with POS replacing it, thats one thing i cant understand, why did CCP replace it with POS modules just as it looked like it had a chance of use with the compression changes.
To which the answer is overhaul the Rorq, not block anything that shares a role with it.
Chaotix Morwen wrote: I would if its engine is broken (well more of a push) Your saying standing grinding is a broken mechanic, hows isk grinding any different...except for the whole getting isk straight away compared to standings reward after time, ah thats it the only difference is the isk grind has instant gratification.
- JC's are not as vital to missions as an engine is to a car. Speakers are more appropriate as a comparison - So the next time the engine light comes on u can make a video of u pushing ur car off a cliff rather than taking it to the garage and put it on youtube. K thanks. - Grinding for isks is a way to make a living in the game. Not a ONE TIME thing. If there was a mechanic where once u had grinded to 1 billion isk everything became free and u no longer needed isk, id say that was a poor mechanic too. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1378
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 11:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:. As far as JC's go, you would cut out the middle men who provide valuable jump clone services to players without standing for reasonable prices. Don't squash opportunity in the sand box.
the opportunity to do this would not be gone, it will just change.
players can still make a corp, set up a JC service and let others come into corp and buy JC's. The proposal adds far more opportunities than it removes. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1378
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 11:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Yes one corp. U only need the standings of one corp to install unlimited jump clones. And how is 1 guy running level 4's whilst 10ppl sit afk in fleet more work than several chars combining their PI to make a tower, modules and fuel to make their own JC base? see how i twisted things like u have? Except for they don't. The same 10 people who sat AFK in station or on a gate will also sit AFK in station or on a gate, while 1 guy does the PI to make their life easier. Sorry to disappoint you, but that's how it works in 98% of the cases.
yeah, there are issues with both cases, and they are both twisted with bias. i was deliberately pointing that out.
edit- and when i say issues, i really mean there is a way for one person to do it alone if they are willing to put the time,money and effort in. and thats not really an issue/ EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1379
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 13:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
hurray!
more money for me AND CCP EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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